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My dream come true, but I need help.
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Munk



Joined: 14 Aug 2013
Posts: 23
Location: BC, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:34 pm Post subject: My dream come true, but I need help. Reply with quote

Hey guys, long time lurker, new time buyer.
I just bought a Niva, the body is in fabulous condition (no rust or dents anywhere). The engine is also in good condition with a single exception, the rings are blown. I discovered this by finding oil in the air filter and later checking the compression.
I have wanted one of these since is was 16 and am terribly excited to get it on the road.

It is a 1994 21214 1.7TBi with 13000km. You read that right, only 13k, I believe this has been in storage for most its life causing the rings to seize and fail when it was started years later.
I removed a tow kit from it so I am willing to bet a good portion of the mileage on it is it being towed.

I know very little about its actual history as the guy selling it to me lied about its engine condition wanting way more than the $500 I paid for it.
It is possible this is a franken car as there are some confusing aspects that I was hoping you guys could help me clear up.
The emissions system and fuel injection seems to be crudely installed and the engine is stamped 21213 which has me confused.
Looking at the manuals for a 21214 I got the impression that this was supposed to have MPFI.

Can anyone give me some insight into this vehicle?
How much should I expect to pay for new rings per cylinder? I was quoted $25.
Does anyone know a reliable place to get a gasket kit in north america?

You can see the body is stamped 21214:


But the engine is stamped 21213:



The fuel filter is hanging loose in the engine compartment and the vapor canister is pipe strapped to a random bit of metal bolted to the master cylinder:

There is a hose strapped to the underside of the chassis ending half way down that is attached to what I believe is the fresh air intake port on the vapor canister solenoid. I want to remove this as I don't see its purpose.

The top numbers are the cylinder compression values in psi and the bottom numbers are the values after dumping some oil in to verify the valve seal.


Other random photos:









Thanks in advance for any advice you guys can give!
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GadgetBoy



Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 957
Location: Belfast, N. Ireland

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:44 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

21214 VIN plate and 21213 engine is correct.

If it has 13000 genuine kms your rings should be fine no matter what the life story. However, the level of butchery with the fuel system suggests 13000km might be a bit suspect. A little oil in the air filter housing is perfectly acceptable, it's a very basic breather system.

That said they're a brutally tough engine and I would run it for a while with fresh oil and filters and then check the compression.

See my website for workshop manuals.

This video shows the correct position of the fuel filter and charcoal cannister. This totally original engine has 45K kms and sat for several years unused.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehIlCAnGoXE
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GadgetBoy
'96 Niva 1.7i
Belfast, N. Ireland
http://www.ladaniva.co.uk
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Munk



Joined: 14 Aug 2013
Posts: 23
Location: BC, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:11 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi GadgetBoy, thanks for the great resource of manuals.
Sorry, I should have also included that there is a bad flat spot at around 2500rpm.
It is having a really tough time on hills and is unable to pass the load test for my local emission standards test that is required.
I pulled the catalytic converter off to see if it was plugged but it looks like someone punched two holes through the honeycomb.

I believe it is burning through about half a liter of oil a day.

Do you think that running it will improve it with such low compression on the first two cylinders?
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Munk



Joined: 14 Aug 2013
Posts: 23
Location: BC, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:27 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

I should also include I have changed the fluids and filters and went over the thing making sure nothing else was wrong before driving it.

I can't see in the video if that charcoal canister has a third hose coming from it. Do you think I can remove this extra hose without issue?

I plan to remount and tie down everything in the engine compartment. I also have to go through the body electrical as it looks like someone has heavily modified it, partly from the tow kit.

Also, in the manuals what should I be reading this vehicle as? 21214, 21214-10 or 21214-20. I don't fully understand the difference and 21214 is listed as having a MFPI.
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GadgetBoy



Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 957
Location: Belfast, N. Ireland

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:46 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

21214-10 1.7 TBi (not the multipoint). The manual deals with the carb version (21214) the Throttle Body Injection is mentioned in an appendix at the back. You need "The Blue Book" for a full description of the throttle body system.

Now ..... back to the job in hand.

Does your <check engine> light illuminate when you turn the ignition on but don't start the engine?
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GadgetBoy
'96 Niva 1.7i
Belfast, N. Ireland
http://www.ladaniva.co.uk
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Munk



Joined: 14 Aug 2013
Posts: 23
Location: BC, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:37 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll have to double check but I believe it does. When I start the engine is goes off, then after driving, especially up hill it turns back on.

I'll have to pull the actual engine code but I just assumed it was the oil entering the carburetor through the vapor return hose.
The exhaust seems to be relatively clean (not blue).
I am sure I can find it but if you have the procedure off hand to get the car to report the code I would appreciate it.
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RACh



Joined: 11 Feb 2014
Posts: 18
Location: Russia,South region.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:09 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Munk wrote:

I plan to remount and tie down everything in the engine compartment. I also have to go through the body electrical as it looks like someone has heavily modified it, partly from the tow kit.
I see that this car is repaired through every 300 km. Many details changed. It would be good to ask the person who created this masterpiece.
May be better to change the engine and electric equipment to the new, if this car is so necessary?
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GadgetBoy



Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 957
Location: Belfast, N. Ireland

PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:06 am Post subject: Reply with quote

It's on my website ....

Gadgetboy's TBi 101

Anyways. If the Cat has been drilled the ECU will have kittens when it goes closed loop which is one of the reasons the CE light is coming on.

Let's take a step back here ....

If your car had led a normal life 13000km is 3000km after the first service. Ask yourself - do your engine/electrics look like they're from a car 3000km after the 1st service.

Personally I'd assume 13000km is a fantasy number and work from there. The Niva is a tough little beast and everything is easily repairable. For example, you can change the rings by without taking the engine out of the car.
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GadgetBoy
'96 Niva 1.7i
Belfast, N. Ireland
http://www.ladaniva.co.uk
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RACh



Joined: 11 Feb 2014
Posts: 18
Location: Russia,South region.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:53 am Post subject: Reply with quote

About kittens do not understand. Unfortunately my English is bad.
Read here the opinion that a more powerful engine bad for the stock transmission. This is so, but from experience, transmission can easily withstand the operation with the engine VAZ 2130, increased to a volume of 2 liters.
I agree that the main advantage of the Niva, is the ability to easily repair, and inexpensive. But it is in Russia. Your enthusiasm is surprising!
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Ben



Joined: 17 Feb 2008
Posts: 567
Location: Kingston, MI

PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:36 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Cat is short for catalytic converter, the catalyst, the thing in the exhaust to filter out emissions.

I can see where you'd be confused!
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GadgetBoy



Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 957
Location: Belfast, N. Ireland

PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 3:29 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Anyways. If the Cat has been drilled the ECU will have kittens when it goes closed loop which is one of the reasons the CE light is coming on.


OK. Let me translate this.

Cat = catalytic converter
ECU will have kittens = ECU will be very confused
CE light = Check Engine light
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GadgetBoy
'96 Niva 1.7i
Belfast, N. Ireland
http://www.ladaniva.co.uk
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RACh



Joined: 11 Feb 2014
Posts: 18
Location: Russia,South region.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 4:02 am Post subject: Reply with quote

GadgetBoy wrote:
Quote:
Anyways. If the Cat has been drilled the ECU will have kittens when it goes closed loop which is one of the reasons the CE light is coming on.


OK. Let me translate this.

Cat = catalytic converter
ECU will have kittens = ECU will be very confused
CE light = Check Engine light

Thank you!
I can't say that became clearer. But it's clear that it's slang. Kittens, this negative phenomena in ECU.
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JPXman



Joined: 15 Sep 2011
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:03 am Post subject: Reply with quote

caution - off topic

that front bush bar on your niva, i've seen it before in the pics from the st. paul dealership in manitoba - and on my NIVA. was it some sort of factory option?

Tyler
Toronto, ON
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Munk



Joined: 14 Aug 2013
Posts: 23
Location: BC, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:45 am Post subject: Reply with quote

GadgetBoy wrote:
21214-10 1.7 TBi (not the multipoint). The manual deals with the carb version (21214) the Throttle Body Injection is mentioned in an appendix at the back. You need "The Blue Book" for a full description of the throttle body system.


Are you sure about it being 21214-10 and not 21214? I just found that on page 185 and 190 of http://www.ladaniva.co.uk/lada/1700_3.pdf that it describes it as 21214 having the TBi. I think 21213 is supposed to be the carb version.
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baxter



Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Posts: 167
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: My dream come true, but I need help. Reply with quote

Munk wrote:
The top numbers are the cylinder compression values in psi and the bottom numbers are the values after dumping some oil in to verify the valve seal.


I'm no expert, but looking at those values you may not necessarily have a broken ring. You need to analyse both the variations and increase differences:
Dry: 100 - 089 - 160 -185
Wet: 185 - 145 - 190 - 250
Diff: 085 - 056 - 030 - 075

Iirc an increase of about 30psi is fine between the wet and dry test (am I right peeps?)

While the variation within the dry test looks bad (ie more than 10% on 1 and 2), but that could be because of worn or wrongly adjusted valves.

The pot that's badly down at 89, is also badly down when wet so that indicates valves are a factor for that pot.

The pot that's at 100 though is possibly more of a problem, as it's picks up 85 psi to be about where it should be when wet, so could indeed indicate a ring issue (I'm assuming the 250 is a spurious reading (eg too much oil poured in etc) so I'm ignoring the 75psi increase).

I'd make sure my valves are correctly adjusted, and if that makes no big difference I'd look at a leak-down test if you know someone with the gear.

Nice Niva btw Smile
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